Feast of Blades '13

Wednesday, August 25, 2010

The Sweet Spot for "Elite" Armies


Now that we are in the midst of 5th edition with a nice collection of 5th edition Codices out already the older dex’s from 4th and even 3rd edition are being seen less and less.
Everyone knows the number one reason, points cost.
With the higher points cost of these older dex’s compared to newer ones, the common term for these armies is becoming the “Elite” Armies. Now I like to speculate into what lead to this terminology. An obviously higher point cost generally means the unit is better or more “elite”. You could also say, and I personally think this is the case, that these dex’s were from back in a time where min/max was king. This is when you took the very minimum troops choices needed and stocked up on lots of Elite choices for your competitive lists. Almost all of your points went into Elites, heavy support, HQ, etc with the minimum being used on your two, five man tactical squads in rhinos. This makes these codices the elite armies of 40k. Either way these armies do not have what is going for the newer dex’s, cheaper models. For example in my chaos Army (Which I will detail below) the basic transport I am willing to take costs me 70 points. This is a Rhino with daemonic possession and a havoc launcher. I will talk about why I take that composition in a future article. My point is that is not the best of standard transports in the game and yet I am almost shelling out 100 points for a tin can to hide my precious Khorne Berserkers in that in other armies can outfit almost 2 rhinos or a nice RB armed with some nasty heavy weapon.
Now for the purposes of this article I will talk, with going into detail with CSM because they are my current army, about the three most popular “Elite Armies” which are CSM, Eldar, and Daemonhunters (Grey Knights particularly). Now these armies all have some awesome units that can perform very well on the tabletop which is why you will still see them in tournaments, with GK to a lesser extent, and even win tournaments. Currently, as is the last time any list was made up of it, the codex that has earned the largest amount of “Golden Tickets” to the Vegas Championships next summer is CSM, not Guard or SW or even BA. This can prove that these dex’s are still competitive. Now, without me checking, I can almost guarantee you that a lot of the Eldar or CSM “Golden Ticket” winners won them in games in a particular points level. This points level is 1750, the “sweet spot” for elite armies.
Now to the point of my article, why do I consider this the “sweet spot” for “Elite” Codices? Well to put it simply it is large enough of a points level for any of these codices to put out an army large enough to fill all of the needs an army needs in a game of 40k without being large enough for your opponent to dish out so many models that they are hard to compete with. Also these dex’s were written in a time when the common points level and GT standard for 40k was 1750 so these codices were written for that points level. Anyway 1750 is just enough points to fill in all the gaps in the army. It is generally a comfort level for Elite Armies. At a larger points level there will be too many enemy models for your smaller force to deal with. You wreck a land Raider? Well your opponent brought another one. Killed a RB or two? Well he has 4 more. You can easily get the picture. At mid-small points levels gaps start to show in the list making for these armies. A critical area of the list becomes thin or non-existent. This leaves your army weak and easy for a 5th edition codex to rip you to shreds. Personally 1500 and 1750 are my two favorite points levels to play 40k at. 1500 for my Space Marines and 1750 for my World Eaters.
Now lets examine my 1750 point list for my World Eaters Army in the contrast to other armies (I’ll write an article on my 1750 point tournament list when I get around to play testing CSM enough as they are my new army).

HQ
1. Daemon Prince- Wings, Warptime - 155
Elites- NONE
Troops
1 x8 Khorne Berserkers - 228
-Skull Champ, plasma pistol- 15
-P Fist- 25
-icon
1. x8 Khorne Berserkers - 228
-Skull Champ, plasma pistol- 15
-P Fist- 25
-icon
2. x8 Khorne Berserkers – 228
-Skull Champ, plasma pistol- 15
-P Fist- 25
-icon
· x2 Rhino- 150 total
- Daemonic Possession- 20 each
- Havoc Launcher- 15 each
- -Dozer Blades 5 each
Fast Attack- NONE
Heavy Support
1. Chaos Defiler- 150
2. Land Raider- Dirge Caster, Daemonic Poss., Havoc Launcher - 255
3. Obliterator Cult- x3 -225
Summoned Daemons
1. X5 Lesser Daemons- 65
2. X 5 Lesser Daemons-65

At this points level I can fill out all of the major sections of the army. I have a good 5 scoring units in the list. I use the Khorne Berserkers, the Raider, and the Daemon Prince all as combination to form a loose death star pack (instead of a single unit). I have 2 units of Daemons as my “get things done” or “Objective Claiming” units as they sit on objectives that my berserkers have already cleared. My assault element is obviously my entire army. My shooting elements are thin but represented in a big Oblits unit as well as my defiler (I’m an old guard player, I love to have a battlecannon or two), and in my Land Raider as well. It is a very simple and to the point list yet I can cover all elements with a good degree of confidence. Will I alpha strike my opponent? Not a chance in the world, yet I can deal with just about any regular Joe in your local FLGS with this list. Compare this to your average Marine army and I have a similar amount of killpoints and models being put on the table. He may have 1 or 2 more tabletop “weapons” at his disposal yet I can say it is an even match at the least. Jumping this up to 2000 points there is not much more I can add, yet my Guard opponent suddenly has enough room to add another Valk and veterans demo team, or a couple hydras. It brings my opponents shooting ability up a notch while I really cannot add anything as devastating as he can dish out. You drop me down to 1500 points and I have to sacrifice a Zerker squad or another key part of my list. It makes me a little less flexible and that little less is really a whole lot. 1750 lets me get that flexibility I cannot dish out at lower levels. At higher levels other armies will just win a war of attrition or alpha strike me. The key point is flexibility here. I need enough to be able to work my army around something more than a one-trick pony type of list without allowing my opponent to get too many weapons that I cannot deal with it.

More on this topic in the future…

4 comments:

  1. My own Khorne themed army went something like this.

    1750 Pts - Chaos Marines Roster - Khorne list

    HQ: Kharn the Betrayer (1#, 165 pts)
    1 Kharn the Betrayer @ 165 pts

    Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 100 pts)
    1 Dreadnought @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta)

    Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 100 pts)
    1 Dreadnought @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta)

    Elite: Dreadnought (1#, 100 pts)
    1 Dreadnought @ 100 pts (Multi-Melta)

    Troops: Khorne Berzerkers (8#, 212 pts)
    6 Khorne Berzerkers @ 212 pts (Rhino)
    1 Skull Champion (Power Weapon)
    1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter)

    Troops: Khorne Berzerkers (9#, 243 pts)
    7 Khorne Berzerkers @ 243 pts (Rhino)
    1 Skull Champion (Power Fist)
    1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter)

    Troops: Khorne Berzerkers (9#, 243 pts)
    7 Khorne Berzerkers @ 243 pts (Rhino)
    1 Skull Champion (Power Fist)
    1 Rhino (Twin Linked Bolter)

    Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 115 pts)
    1 Predator @ 115 pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Autocannon; Heavy Bolter; Havoc Launcher)

    Heavy Support: Predator (1#, 115 pts)
    1 Predator @ 115 pts (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Autocannon; Heavy Bolter; Havoc Launcher)

    Heavy Support: Obliterators (3#, 225 pts)
    3 Obliterators @ 225 pts

    : Summoned Lesser Daemon (5#, 65 pts)
    5 Summoned Lesser Daemon @ 65 pts

    : Summoned Lesser Daemon (5#, 65 pts)
    5 Summoned Lesser Daemon @ 65 pts

    Total Roster Cost: 1748

    I know Multi-Meltas on Chaos dreadnoughts is a bit risky but it was the only way of getting some ranged Melta weapons in the list as Obliterator Lascannons always seem to bounce off Armour 14. The Lesser Daemons acted as ablative wounds for Kharn when he went off on his own.

    Now I tend to use other Marine codices and use the models as other things as it's difficult to compete against armies that get better stuff than you for less points...

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  2. I must say, I agree with the 1750 thoughts....the newer 5th ed codex 'sweet spot' seems to be closer to 2000 points now....but at 1750 most armies seem to be competitive enough. I like both your Khorne lists, looks like a few lists I played with for a while...although my Berzerkers have only seen one game in 5th ed so far....maybe I should dust them off for a match or two....

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  3. I concur. I'd be interested in where you think Orks fit in: on the one hand they have obscenely cheap Troops, on the other they're pathologically dependent on units from the other sections in order to do their things (and it can be argued that their best Troops are imports from the Fast Attack or Elites sections anyway), and they don't have any of the FOC-buggering capacity that, say, the Space Marine book does.

    My gut feeling is that they're in the same boat as Chaos, maybe with a bit more upward scalability to about 2000 if their player's clever. Be interested to know where you think they'd end up.

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  4. @Von I will post some thoughts on where Orks place after I get up into RI and get to play the half of players that play Orks up there.

    Personally I think they're in a unique boat where they could play both levels around the same position of competitiveness. I would, although, say 1750 just because they a re a 4th edition 'dex and 4th edition was designed for that level

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