If you were to ask me a year ago what was wrong with the Vanilla Marines codex I would have told you three things. 1. Everything in it you can do better in another codex 2. Everything is cheaper the newer Marine Codex you use. 3. The Actual army lacks flavor overall. Now I would say overall I like it. The costs have been updated to match, or even go lower, than the other marine codices and Chapter tactics adds the flavor or specialization needed to give this army character. Today Army wide USR's are what gives an army flavor and use. Chapter tactics do this for us....but CT's have a little problem that needs an FAQ IMHO.
So is it me or are CT written a little poorly? Besides the questionable fact that it looks like you cant ally with a detachment of the same Tactics it seems only Ultradudes have to pick one trait as a one off lasts a turn. IF you read through the way they wrote the inter-codex ally rules they say you can ally with a army with another CT set. It also says that if you do have an army of two chapters with the same CT's they need to be in the same detachment . Its this wording that is poor and needs to be fixed but the way I read it you cant inter-ally unless its with another CT set.
So it seems they made Chapter Master's useful. Take Artificer armor, powerfist, bike, and the shield eternal and you have a 4 wound T5 2+/3++ EW model on a bike....That would be fun to explain to opponents (Yes its 245 points) Stick him in with my CS on bikes (needs libie too) and you have FNOP. Id love to roll IWND power on biomancy and explain this guy to my opponent. I plan I trying this out.
Wierdly enough it looks like they made legion of the Damned better at what sternguard use to do than Sternguard. For 145 points you get a 3++ relentless ignores cover unit with a melta gun and multi melta. Not bad. Sternguard need a pod and cost more because of it and dont have invulnerable saves. Still are they worth it? I use to run a unit of these guys for fun at tournaments quite a few years back, mostly because they made this local Tau guy crap his pants for some reason but I did win a tournament with them before.
135 point 5 man scoring bike squads (from my beat stick CM) with 2 gravy guns? Yes please. Cheap scoring bikes is huge. Especially if you combine with WS chapter tactics giving them 4/3+ jinks, hit and run, and ignore DT. +1 S to HOW is ok as well....+1 to jink really just makes Dark Angel Spooky speeder owners just cry.
Stalker doesnt look bad and its cheap. Can double its output, yes at lower BS, still its nice. AV 12/12/10 is huge when combined with cheap anti air. I was worried they would only be 11/11/10 like a rhino.
Devs cant get special weapons, nor can Command Squads? lame
Now for our micro sized Black Templar set.....sorry BT players, I was hoping for a real codex for them myself...
Well at least you dint have to take the Emp. Champ. anymore...
Anyone notice crusader squads can get a heavy weapon and a special weapon in a 5 man squad? Masters of MSU I see but mobs of 20+ models including marines with a scout shield is pretty cool. Also BT are nasty in challanges if properly done.
If you take Grimaldus you can take Cenobyte Servitors for a 6++ bubble, which is better than nothing
Still looks like a way better book. Seems like it needs a faq on a few things especially those chapter tactics. I like it...look back for some list ideas and some more digestion.....more on this later
I'm hoping the Marine players out there are happy, they need to get back to the tables and start adding some more diversity to the community. I'm a little sick of playing against Tau and Eldar. Lol.
ReplyDeleteand daemons haha
ReplyDeleteGetting the new codex in and looking it over, my initial response is....meh. the xodex is playable, but so much are just minor tweeks that it barley deserved a codex. And onoy two kits that seem unessary. Bikers are the biggest winner so far.....and I hate bike armies so I won't be jumping on that bandwagon. Overalo disappointed that there are no SM specific psychic powers, and the Ultras Tigerios is the only way to get divination. I don't think this was that great overall as it was cut and paste in soooo many areas.
ReplyDeleteI would be concerned if they didn't "cut and paste" a significant amount of the codex. The codex did not need a rewrite, it was good before just dated. They added in a few new toys, changed some points costs and increased playability on a large amount of the options in the book. With staple books like C:SM, they should be refining and updating rather than starting from scratch.
DeleteI played a game against it tonight and it reeked of potential.
My problem is for 50 dollars, adding in BTs I just expected more....its good, but its so similar to the old codex they could have faqed or made an expansion that covered most of the changes.....the LR Redeamer how was screaming for torrent didn't change one bit, not even in points value. Now there are some realy good aspects, first and foremost the chapter tactics are awsome. So I'm not hating the codex, simply expecting a bit more for the crazy prices these books are getting.
DeleteThat would have been a ridiculous FAQ, to the point of making the book borderline unusable.I can only imagine the Internet hate that would have sprung from that move.
DeleteI'm not thrilled by the codex price, but it isn't that much more than the old ones, and I'm going to get more use out of that book than a new Xbox game which is in the same price class. Perhaps I am just a little calloused to the book prices since I'm used to dealing with how much textbooks cost.
I'm not a Black Templar player, so I don't have an opinion on the merits of where that army ended up, but I would think that the players, once they set aside the perceived slight of being rolled into another codex, would be happy that their favored army had a massive amount of new units added to them. But like I said, I don't play them. Perhaps the loss of their old codex is a tragedy because their power level withered and died.
I do agree with you that the Redeemer was screaming for torrent, though. I guess they didn't want to add in a tracked AV14 Helldrake that would just obliterate all the 3+ save models they are trying to sell. Cross your fingers for an FAQ, I guess.
Good points, and I agree the hate would have been huge for an faq only. If it was just one book the price is ok for all the color and content. I'm just a crazy collector and get all their books, my problem I know, but its a lot of cash on just books latley I can barely get the models too....lol. like I said its a good codex, I just thought there would be more diffences from the old one.....but a good thing is I need very minor tweeks if any to my old marines lists and if I do buy any of the new models its because I want to not have to. Sometimes the internet negativity gets to us, but I agree with what you were saying on the codex and have been liking it more as I read it more.
DeleteI understand your wallet's pain. $50 adds up quick when you're shelling it out every other month. I also feel bad for tournament organizers who have to buy the books so they have foundational knowledge of the shenanigans that may show up to their events,
DeleteI guess that whether massive changes to the codex would be a good thing or a bad thing is mostly subjective. I can see from your viewpoint on that.
Negativity on the Internet is so draining to me lately, it just seems there is frothy hate everywhere more than three words are written about this hobby. I'm all for a critical discussion, but its madness out there sometimes. Good talking with you, Melon Head. See you around.
Getting my first game with the new codex this Thursday then my first tournie in a loooong time in Oct....will let you know how it went Kev.
ReplyDeleteFirst game with the new codex was a blast....played against my buddies two Helldrake Typhus CSM list, 2000 points. I played Iron Hands, land raider three fliers the stalker and three techmarines... won the game pretty lopsided....funny thing is i did not make one 6+ FnP nor a single it wilp not die. Lioe it a lot more after playing the codex.
ReplyDeleteGood to hear it! I really want that book to be solid. I love diversity on the tables.
DeleteAfter action report had us coming up with all kinds of lists and unit combos, I do realy think there Willebe a ton of diversity fron this codex. That is after everyone gets over the obvious khan and bikes lists we will inevitably see at tournies right off the bat.
DeleteIt seems to be the normal codex arc that the 6th Ed ones are going through. A codex comes out, there seem to be so be some obvious power builds, then over time, those builds show their weakness and are abandoned. I think we might also see Centurion spam for awhile. Those grav guns are mean in that kind of quantity. Should be an interesting 60 days.
DeleteI'm actually kitting my centurions out with the assault configuration in a land raider crusader and a chaplain....I find there's too many counters for spamming centurians, but a unit of them have their place.
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